>> schieffer: today on "face the nation," the week from hell and back. one of america's most reveered sporting events took a horrific turn, leaving us to wonder will we ever be truly safe? the city of boston was locked down for one of the largest manhunts in u.s. history. ( gunfire ) that ended in a dramatic firefight with police. but many questions about the two suspects remain, and we'll get the latest from massachusetts governor deval patrick, boston police commissioner edward davies, our correspondents covering the story, john miller and bob orr, plus the chairman of the hois homeland security security committee, mike

mccaul. and we'll get analysis from former new york mayor rudy giuliani, and former homeland security secretary tom ridge. but that was not the only story this week. there was also the senate's failure to strengthen gun control laws. >> all in all, this was a pretty shameful day for washington. >> schieffer: we'll hear this morning from the newtown victims' families. >> my mom was not scared in the halls of sandy hook. they should not be scared to cast a vote to protect millions of people. >> schieffer: it was a week of lows and highs. ♪ sweet caroline ♪ >> schieffer: and we'll cover it all because this is "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. >> schieffer: and gps're

gbility are argoodmorning, and h boston police commissioner ed davis. i know you told reporters earlier this morning, that you can't speck plate on the motives of these two young men, but can i ask you this-- were they planning other acts after the bombs they set off at the marathon? >> i personally believe they were. i personally believe they were. we have reason to believe, based upon the evidence that was found at that scene, the explosions, the explosive ordinance that was unexploded, and the firepower that they had, that they were going to attack other individuals. that's-- that's my belief at this point in time. >> schieffer: speaking of that ordinance, they had a lot of homemade bombs and other ordinance. they had guns, obviously, when the police encountered them that night. what-- what kind of ordinance

was this? was it all homemade? did they have other things? and what kind of guns did they have? >> there were over 250 rounds of expended ammunition found at the scene. this was a five- to 10-minute gun battle that occurred, punctuated by loud explosions. several explosive devices went off. they were homemade. there have been published reports that the top of a pressure cooker was discovered, and my officers reported to me there was an extremely loud explosion followed by a series of smaller ones as they engaged in the gun battle with the suspects. so they had i.e.d.s. they had homemade hand grenades that they were throwing at the officers. this was a heavily armed and extreme dangerous group of individuals-- not group, but two individuals. >> schieffer: well, commissioner, were there unexploded devices also recovered there? and did you find other unexploded devices in other places? >> we did. we did.

the scene was littered with unexploded improvised explosive dwhiess actually we had to point out to the arriving officers and clear the area. they were strewn about the area. there was also one found in the motor vehicle that was abandoned, the mercedes s.u.v. so this was as dangerous as it gets in urban policing. >> schieffer: and were there other devices fiewnd in other places? and what were these devices? were they pipe bombs? give smus description of what they were. >> they were homemade explosives. the kettle-- the pressure cooker explosive has been widely talked about. there is a-- not only explosive gun powder but shrapnel that's put into this device. and there were smaller ones that were comprised of the same type of shrapnel.

so there's no doubt they were made by these two guys. >> schieffer: can you give us a be? >> how many, approximately, did you recover? >> there were at least four or so. i don't know exactly the number from watertown. i haven't got the full report on it. but i saw two or three of them on the ground, and there was at least one more. >> schieffer: now, the suspect that you have in custody, the younger man, what is his condition this morning? and have you been able to extract any information from him at this point? >> he is in serious but stable condition. and we have not been able to interrogate him at this point in time. there's a special f.b.i. interview team that's coming out to talk to him. but at this point in time, we have not done that. >> schieffer: commissioner, as you go about this investigation, i mean, where-- where do you go from here? what are the questions you need to answer at this point?

>> well, clearly, motive needs to be answered. we need to collect all the evidence that we can from the scene. and we need to interview witnesses. now that we know what these two individuals look like, this case will be put together very methodically for prosecution. that's all led by carmen ortiz. the physical evidence at the scene collected by the a.t.f. and the f.b.i. is extraordinary and extensive and all of that will play a role in this investigation. >> schieffer: well, this suspect, there were reports that he may have tried to commit suicide, that one of these butet wounds that he sustained, it indicated he may have tried to take his own life when he was in the boat as police were closing in. can you tell me any more about that? >> there were shots fired from idea the boat. as to where they were aimed i can't speck lailt at this point

in time. >> schieffer: did high actually fire at anyone there. >> no one was struck. there was gunfire emitting from the boat. it's hard to say from where it came. >> schieffer: the man who looked into the boat, was he injured in any way? >> no, he was not. he saw the suspect, retreated immediately, and called the police. we were there instantaneously. >> schieffer: and what about charges against this man that's now in the hospital? will he be charged today? or what happens now on that side? >> the united states attorney ortiz is reviewing all of the information right now, and there will be more information to come along those lines later on. >> schieffer: do you have any idea where the weapons they had came from? they obviously had-- >> again, a.t.f.-- >> go ahead, i'm sorry. >> that's okay. they-- they were armed with sidearms and with explosive

devices. a.t.f. tracing all of those weapons right now. and we hope to find out exactly where they obtained them. that's a significant part of the investigation as well. >> schieffer: well, commission ewe want to thank you so much. and we also want to say the nation learned a lot watching this unfold, and watching your people. they were very professional and we wish youlet very best. >> i'm very proud of them. thank you, sir. i appreciate that. >> schieffer: the calm presence of governor deval patrick became so familiar to millions of us during this crise, and he joins us this morning from richmond, massachusetts. governor, thank you so much for joining us. i understand that you want to leave details of the investigation to the investigators. but let me just ask you this. how close is boston to being back to normal this morning? >> well, i don't eye don't know that we'll ever be quite the same. we'll be-- you know, people are

moving out and moving back in to their regular are you teens. but vigilance is still the order of the day. and, of course, we're still trying to heal from a shocking tragedy just-- less than a week away. >> schieffer: let me just ask you about some of the actions you took. you asked millions of people-- it was unprecedented. we've seen in this country lockdowns of schools. we've seen lockdowns of neighborhoods. but you basically asked millions of people to stay in their homes and not go out-- don't go to work, don't travel until this crisis had passed or at least some developments had happened. did you have any fear of political backlash when you asked people to do these things? >> i think people understood that we were making decisions in the face of a rapidly developing

investigation, and that we were making them in the best interests of people's public safety, or the public's safety. and so the real focus, the main focus at the outset was in watertown, in the neighborhood of the gunfight on thursday night. and then we had reason reasons o expand that to boston proper, based on leads that the investigation-- investigators were following. but i can tell you in the aftermath, once the suspect was taken into custody and yesterday morning as people were coming out, the sense of relief and gratitude for law enforcement whose lead i was following was palpable. so i think-- i think there won't be political backlash. and, frankly, i'm not thinking g about that anyhow. >> schieffer: was there ever any point where you worried that people wouldn't follow your orders or your requests eas it were? >> well, bob, having been in

this job for six years, i'm fully aware there are knuckleheads out there. and people moved around. the point was to be very careful, particularly in the area where we believed the suspect was still at large and to be vivigilant as i said. >> and thank the public for following those instructions and their patience. they were a part of this investigation in many, many respects, and having responded to dwoz submit photographs and videotape and so on, all of that helped in narrowing down who we were looking for, and ultimately finding them. >> schieffer: governor, are you satisfied that this threat has passed, that it's over? >> i am. i think-- you know, there is still an ongoing investigation. there are lots of questions about how and why and so forth, and many, many leads still to be tracked down. but the immediate threat, i think all of law enforcement feels, is over, base on the

information we have. and that is a good thing. and you can feel the relief at home here. >> schieffer: do you have any clearer idea, governor, of what the motive of these two young men was? >> not yet, bob. and it's hard for-- it's hard for me and for many of us to imagine what could motivate people to harm innocent men, women, and children in the way that these two fellows did. >> schieffer: governor, i know you're proud of your city and the people of massachusetts. >> very. >> schieffer: and we're proud of you, too, thank you so much. >> thank you, thank you very much. >> schieffer: and we're going to turn now to our two top investigators who have carried cbs news through all of this, cbs news justice department correspondent bob orr, and in new york, cbs news senior correspondent john miller. john miller, you just heard the police commissioner. what do you draw from that, from what he said this morning? >> well, i think he's framed a

couple of really interesting questions. when you have the two suspects, their photographs are out there, they've been out for a couple of hours, they're driving around in a car, and you have to ask yourself, where are they going and what are they doing? based on what do they have with them? they have another pressure cooker bomb. they're carrying that. they have a number of these homemade improvised hand grenades, and they have fully loaded weapons. that is suggesting to a number of the investigators who are looking at what they brought with them that they were trying to find a destination, perhaps another crowd, because now that they've been identified, their schedule has been accelerated, and there is a theory by the investigators on the task force, that they may have been looking for a spontaneous target, something that they could plies their bomb at, attack once again, and to confront police, and it appears-- if that was the plan-- it didn't exactly go as they planned it. but if they were plaque to go out in a blaze of glory, they

certainly came close to that scene they were going to create. >> schieffer: bob orr, one of the questions still unanswered is why was the m.i.t. guard, policeman, shot and killed by these two people? do we-- was he-- did he surprise them in the act of something? did they approach ?im what do we draw from that? >> we really don't know, but after the pictures were on television, when the f.b.i. put out of surveillance pictures, these two suspects changed their tactics. they had been very carefu very o then. they load all this ordinance into the car. they're running. they come across this officer, and as far as we know, it's unprovoked attack. he maybe didn't even see them. they saw the officer and basically assassinated the guy. we can only speck light what that might have been. it might have been an effort to draw attention to that location, maybe get a crowd of officers there and create that second attack if you will. but that's just speculation. right now the key is finding out

if anybody else is involve expected i have to say, bork investigators pulling all threads do not see any signs right now of a larger conspiracy. >> schieffer: john miller, where does this investigation go now? >> well, this is going to be-- actually, it's going to go backwards, bob. they're going to go backwards through the life of both of these suspects because what they're looking for is where did you travel? where did you get money? where did you get training? who did you talk to? what is your universe of contacts? is there anyone significant in there that may come up in other investigations who needs a second look? what are their e-mail communications, training materials, so on. so they really have to fill out a much richer picture of these two individuals because they have three big important questions to answer: how did they plan is this th? what was their motive? but as bob said, most personally, did they have help and are there others out there? the note of radicalization question is significant. were they radicalized by a

person at a location? is that somewhere around boston where they live? was it online or overseas? that leads to the question dthat note of radicalization radicalize others? >> schieffer: and, bob, we at this point have nothing definitive on what motivated them. >> we don't really know. we know these were two brothers that came here years ago as young men. one was very young, seven years old. they grew up in the american culture. as one official said they were assimilated intot culture. we whatyou have here, apparently, is an older brother radicalized overtime by things he is reading, on the internet. and he led the younger brother along. it's very unusual because domestic terrorists in the past have tended to attack installations -- government targets, buildings, that kind of thing. it's very unusual to see an attack against people. >> schieffer: and one other question, john miller, the commissioner was very careful not to tell us what kind of sidearms that they have. my sense is they know some

things here that they are not ready to make public at this point. >> well, i think, as he said, a.t.f. will do the tracing there, and as bob orr can tell you, a.t.f. will trace those weapons back to the manufacturer, the point of sale, and there's going to be a question of did these individuals buy those guns, and if so, legally? or did they get those guns from someone ?els and that opens up-- and this is probably why the commissioner was being cautious-- that opens up the idea there could be additional suspects in terms of how they obtained the guns, if it was illegal. >> schieffer: all right. well, i want to thank both of you, not for just this morning but for what you've done all week, extraordinary work. and we'll be back with some thoughts of our own in a minute. [ male announcer ] ok, here's the way the system works. let's say you pay your guy around 2% to manage your money. that's not much you think. except it's 2% every year. does that make a difference? search "cost of financial advisors" ouch. over time it really adds up.

then go to e-trade and find out how much our advice costs. spoiler alert: it's low. really? yes, really. e-trade offers investment advice and guidance from dedicated, professional financial consultants. it's guidance on your terms, not ours. that's how our system works. e-trade. less for us. more for you. transit fares! as in the 37 billion transit fares we help collect each year. no? oh, right. you're thinking of the 1.6 million daily customer care interactions xerox handles. or the 900 million health insurance claims we process. so, it's no surprise to you that companies depend on today's xerox for services that simplify how work gets done. which is...pretty much what we've always stood for. with xerox, you're ready for real business. texas congressman mike mccaul.

congressman, obviously, are you getting briefings from intelligence officials here. what do they think the motive of this thing is? >> well, i think that's the big question is, i think to answer that, you have to look at where they came from, the father, the family. we have to understand chechnya, the chechen rebels, some of the fiercest taliban-- jihadist fighters out there. having an aliegence with al qaeda in pakistan and afghanistan. when you look in that world historical context, it starts to make a little more sense, of putting the pieces of the puzzle together. when you look at the foreign travel, the particularly the older son who did travel to see his father in the chechien region, july, 2012-- january to july-- he spent six months over there and i think the real question investigators have right now is what was he doing over there for six months? when he comes back one of the

first things he does is put up a youtube site that has radical jihaddivity rhetoric on the web site and nine months later pulls off the largest attack on american soil-- terrorist attack-- since 9/11. >> schieffer: so we know that one of the things that happened while he was there, we know he-- we think he saw his parents, but we really don't know much else at this point. but what you're saying is, it appears that he had become somehow radicalized. >> my theor sehe was radicalized by 2009-10. reports show the russian intelligence service reach out to our law enforcement to interview this individual, when they did. he was on the radar, then he got off the radar. then he travels overseas. i would assume the russians would have some intelligence on this individual. >> schieffer: but they asked our f.b.i. to check him out, and, apparently, they reported

back they really had nothing to report. is there a problem here? are you planning to look into that? >> my job as chairman of the homeland security is to find out what happened, what may have gone wrong, and how can we prevent this in the future to save american lives. i sent a letter to the director of the f.b.i., secretary napolitano, clapper, the head of the d.n.i., to give us answers as to what came out of that interview. why weren't customs flags put on this individual when he traveled abroad? i think another important point are the tools of trade craft used here. this pressure cooker device is very similar to what the taliban in pakistan use. the idea that they could make pipe bombs and then there are reports they had suicide vests, all point to the fact that this was -- >> do you have any evidence of that, direct evidence, or is this-- >> well, the reporting from the police cars as the first ones to pull them over when they got in the shoot-out, that they had

explosives strapped to their chests. that takes it up to another notch, another level. and i think, just my theory, something happened during that six-month period to change this individual. >> schieffer: all right, well we want to-- are you going to hold hearings, by the way othis? >> we are. we are in the process, in due time. i do want to commend the f.b.i., a.t.f., the boston police and the local people who responded to this. when they sang the national anthem after the second terrorist was brought down, it was very inspirational. very reminiscent of when we sang "god bless america" on the capitol steps an 9/11. >> schieffer: and we'll be back in just a minute. new , where cutting taxes for families and businesses is our business. we've reduced taxes and lowered costs to save businesses more than two billion dollars to grow jobs,

cut middle class income taxes to the lowest rate in sixty years, and we're creating tax free zones for business startups. the new new york is working creating tens of thousands of new businesses, and we're just getting started. to grow or start your business visit thenewny.com governor of getting it done. you know how to dance... with a deadline. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. this is awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is, business pro. yes, it is. go national. go like a pro.

how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed: the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ the horrific events of this past week have become all too

familiar. first an act of inexplicable tragedy and unspeakable loss occurs. then we cry out for answers. and then the president flies in and offers words of condolence at a memorial service, and then he flies back to washington, and not much changes. that's how the week started in boston. i'm sure the president said all the right things there but i had a hard time keeping my mind on his words. what kept running through my mind was when will he be called on to offer words of condolence at the next memorial service and the one after that? and based on past episodes, i didn't expect much to be different this time. but i was wrong. here's what was different-- while washington found itself trying to explain to the families of the newtown massacre victims why it was so difficult to strengthen background checks for gun buyers and while some in washington sought political leverage, even in this awful

event, the people of boston showed us what happens when people put aside the partisan games, work together, and find the curnlg-- and, yes-- the confidence to confront the problem at hand. competence and courage are rare commodities these days. but political washington could learn a lot from what we saw in boston last week, a lot. back in a minute. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 searching for a bank designed for investors like you? tdd: 1-800-345-2550 schwab bank was built with tdd: 1-800-345-2550 all the value and convenience investors want. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 like no atm fees, worldwide. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 and no nuisance fees. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 plus deposit checks with mobile deposit, tdd: 1-800-345-2550 and manage your cash and investments tdd: 1-800-345-2550 with schwab's mobile app. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 no wonder schwab bank has grown to over 70 billion in assets. tdd: 1-800-345-2550 so if you're looking for a bank that's in your corner,

tdd: 1-800-345-2550 not just on the corner, tdd: 1-800-345-2550 call, click or visit to start banking with schwab bank today. but at xerox we've embraced a new role. working behind the scenes to provide companies with services... like helping hr departments manage benefits and pensions for over 11 million employees. reducing document costs by up to 30%... and processing $421 billion dollars in accounts payables each year. helping thousands of companies simplify how work gets done.

how's that for an encore? with xerox, you're ready for real business. stations are leaving us now, but for most of you we'll be back with a lot more of "face the nation," including a special interview with some of the families of the newtown victims. plus new york mayor -- former new york mayor rudy giuliani, and former homeland security secretary tom ridge will be along with analysis of these events. stay with us. ,,,,,,,,,,

now to the other big story. how the senate was unable to strengthen gun control laws. families of the newtown victims, those children and the teachers and their principal who were gunned down in the connecticut shooting were watching as all this unfolded in the senate. and three of those people are with us. carlee soto, sister of the victoria soto, who died shielding the children in her classroom. she had hid them in a closet, and then the man came in and shot her. erica lafferty, the daughter of dawn hochsprung, the brave principal of sandy hook elementary. she was in a meeting. she heard the first shots. ran into the hallway. she ideal at the gunman to stay

back, and then lunged at him, and then finally, neil heslin, father of six-year-old jesse lewis, one of the students who was hiding in vicki soto's school. it must have been very difficult for you all this week, in light of this other story that was unfolding in boston. you must just-- your emotioning must have been almost out of control after what you'd been through even before this. >> it was unbelievable that we were talking to senators and their staff, and then we get news of this while talking to a senator staff member. and just freaking out like, our country's really doing this. people are still, like, so evil. >> schieffer: erica, what was your reaction to the events of this week? >> honestly tfelt like i was reliving the worst day of my entire life over again, thinking about the pain that all of the boston victims' families are

going through, and will continue to go through. it was all too familiar of a feeling. >> schieffer: neil? >> it was a shock when i heard what happened in boston. what went through my mind was all of what we lived through at sandy hook on december 14. and i can just imagine it was the same as what it was at sandy hook with the police and the ambulances and the same sort of scene. >> schieffer: you came here. you talked to senators. they talked to you. and then the senate votes, and basically, they voted against the bipartisan measure, the manchin-toomey bill, they voted against the republican substitute, and they vote against the democratic bill, which was diane diane fine

stieb's to outlaw these fast-fearing weapons. what do you do now? where do you go from here? >> we're not going away. we're going to keep fighting for our loved ones and everyone else who has died from gun violence. you know, we knew going into it that we weren't going to get the 60 votes, but we also knew that this is just the beginning. this is first step, and we're going to keep fighting. >> schieffer: were you-- you were, obviously, disappointed. did it go beyond that? >> i'm honestly disgusted that there were so many senators that are doing nothing about the fact that my mom was gunned down in her elementary school along with five other educator educators a- and 7-year-old children. it's dproasly unfair to the family members of newtown as well as all other gun violence victims. i just hope that nothing like this that's happen to any of them but i think-- i think you

have to be in our shoes to understand how bad it hurts. >> schieffer: did you talk to any of the senators who voted against this bill? >> yes. collectively i think that the newtown families had talked to quite a few of them. we spent all week on capitol hill. going literally door to door, talking to a couple of senators, a lot of staff members, just trying to get things figured out, trying to understand, you know, if there was anything that we could do to sway their decision, to have a conversation with them, to explain where it is, standing from our point. >> schieffer: some people use the word "cowardice, cowards." do you feel, neil, that's an appropriate word to use?

those who voted against it? >> i do. i feel they're not standing up for what they should be. you know, at this point, i think i view it as political game. you had 90% of the democrats who voted in favor of-- in support of these bills and voted in favor of them. and 90% republican that did not. 54% of the majority did vote in favor of it. and this is something that 90 purpose of the citizens support. it's not about the second amendment. it's strengthening and adding to laws that are already in effect. so i,-- i don't think they did justice for all the victims of newtown. >> schieffer: carlee, how do you feel about it? >> my sister wasn't a coward that day. high sister pushed the kids up against the wall, out of the

sight-- if you look into her class, my sister left the wall to grab her keys to lock her door, and that's when he came in the room. my sister was not a coward. she protected her kids. why aren't they protecting us? >> i have said it a plethora of times before-- my mom was not scared in the halls of sandy hook. they should not be scared to cast a vote to protect millions of innocent people. >> schieffer: how do you get something done here? you say you're not going away. what specifically can you do? >> i know we have a great team of senators that are not giving up on this. they are going to work to try to find some type of new compromise to maybe-- you know, there was a question about the rural part of the toomey-manchin legislation, that they are going to try to work-- so i'm really going to be here to do anything that they need me to do, get the word out, talk to anyone who will listen. people are going to get sick of

seeing my face because i'm not giving up on this. i'm not giving up on my mom. >> schieffer: what was the hardest part-- i'd just like to hear from each of you-- what was the hardest part of this week for you, after all you've been through before this week? >> having to relive the worst day of my entire life multiple times daily. it's excruciating. >> same. you know, you tellue sit down with these senators, and you sit down with their staff, and you tell exactly what happened on december 14, and you tell them all the excruciating details. so they have that picture in their mind when they're casting their vote, and for them to just look at you like nothing. they have no emotion. they're not "oh, i'm sorry." it's nothing. >> well, i'd like to go back to, you know, in jesse's class, 11 children survived. that was in vicki soto's class. and jesse was six and a half years old, and he was yelling, "run, run now."

four of the children ran at that point. when he ideal the second time four more ran. and then one more ran, a total of nine. and they survived. jesse was shot and killed looking that gunman in the face. he was shot in the forehead. and, you know, the courage of a little six-year-old boy to even be able to think to yell, "run" under those circumstances clearly showed he was no coward, the same as vicki soto was a hero, and she was no coward. and dawn, the principal. they all looked him in the face, and they all eye to eye, and they were killed by him eye to eye. and it's beyond me how these congressmen cannot stand up and support something that would

prevent-- or help prevent something like this from ever occurring again. as simple as a background check-- putting aside the assault weapons ban or limitations or control. it's just a stepping stone of the background check with the mental health and school security. i think the most discouraging part of this week was to, after the vote, to see who voted and who didn't vote to support it, and realize it's a political game. it was nothing bipartisan about it at all. and we aren't going to go away. i know i'm not. we aren't going to stop until there are changes that were made. >> schieffer: i know how hard it is for you to even now to sit down and talk about it, but i thank you for come and helping us tell your story. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you.

>> schieffer: thank you so much. and we'll be back in a minute. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers. governor of getting it done. you know how to dance... with a deadline. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price.

this is awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is, business pro. yes, it is. go national. go like a pro. now with the former homeland security secretary tom ridge and former new york city mayor rudy giuliani. mayor giuliani is in our new york studio this morning. thanks to both of you. we just heard, secretary ridge, this heartwrending story being told by the families of the newtown victims. what are we going to do about this? >> that's one of the most poignant interviews i've heard in a long, long time, particularly the dad talking about the six-year-old looking the shoot nert eye. the daughter talking about her mom and the principal. and at the end of the day, i think the president has said and these people are absolutely determined to start the process. and as someone who previously

vote forward an assault weapon ban back in '85, i think it is certainly within the right, as a matter of public policy, to circumscribe your ability to access certain kinds of firemans and i certainly thought at least the background check would find bipartisan support. i regret that it didn't. >> schieffer: mayor giuliani what, do you think is going to happen on gun violence in this country? are we any closer to containing it than we ever were? >> in a strange way, i think we are. i mean, just having the debate was a lot better than what's happened in the last 10 years when this debate has been suppressed. i think tom is pretty much exactly where i've been. i supported the assault weapon ban when i was a prosecutor and when i was the mayor and in the justice department. unfortunately, i think the way this was presented gave people who wanted to vote against it an out. it never dealt with the mental health aspect of this. if you say, it this law had been

passed would it have prevented adam lanza? the sad answer is no it would not. adam lanza was not in any database indicating he had mental illness because all that information is kept very private. it's kept very confidential. if we're really going to improve here, if we're really going to be honest with these people you had on the show and prevent-- or attempt to prevent another sandy hook-- you've got to do something about how secretive all of these mental health records, the privacy aspect of it. it's one thing to say you have a background check and a database. it's another thing to say the information is not in the database. so you've got to deal with both parts of it. and i think that would have made a much more difficult vote for those people who voted against it. i would have voted for it in any event but i think it would have made a more difficult vote. >> i think rudy has a good point, bob. i was on the panel that investigate the the virginia tech incident and there was a gap available on the background check and what had been

retained. and this individual was under a court order because of a psychological illness. so i think there's a lot to be done. but i think it would have been a very positive first step. >> i agree. >> schieffer: mr. mayor, let me ask you about the situation in boston. you earned the nickname "america's mayor" after 9/11. how do you best thing boston can get back up on its feet after in? >> well, i think boston has made some very positive steps of getting back up on the feet-- i think they were on their feet immediately. i think the people there were tremendously resilient. i think they handled it very well. it reminded me of the people of new york the way they handled it. i think the fact that the two primary actors-- possibly sole actors but maybe not-- have been arrested so quickly in what was a very, very efficient law enforcement operation. that helps a lot. it helps even with the families. you see even the young boy's family. they put out a statement congratulating law enforcement at a time of great grief.

this helps. so i think there are some very positive steps that have happened here. >> schieffer: what's different about this situation and what happened on 9/11? >> well, you know, for me this reminds me more of the attack in london back in 2005. unfortunately i lived through that, also. i was a half block away from the liverpool station when the first bomb went off, and i spent a few days at tony blair's request getting involved in that. it reminds me more of that kind of an attack. a lot of similarities. you have people who had become citizens-- in that case in the u.k., here in the united states-- citizen who appeared to have been radicalized after previously not having been. people who joined the jihadist cause. the cities reacted in a very, very similar way. they use video surveillance there to cawch-- or figure out who did it. video surveillance was used here. i think there were a lot of similarities with that case in

particular. >> schieffer: secretary ridge, i guess you were the first homeland security secretary. the post was actually created after 9/11. you know, since then, a lot of people say maybe we've just added another level of bureaucracy. do you think it has been effective, and are we safer now-- will we ever really feel safe again? >> i think we certainly are safer. i certainly think it's been effective. a little anecdote, positive anecdote amid all this horror and this tragedy was the extraordinary response of the emergency service personnel, the integration of capabilities between the federal, state, and local level. i think a lot of this can be attributed to the engagement of the federal government through the department of homeland security which training, with exercises, with equipment, with funding. i also think this incident shows the breadth and type of terrorism we're going to confront in the years ahead has changed dramatically. if you compare 9/11, put pel act

organize multiple venues, training, finances-- and now we're seeing individuals living in one place, materials that can be acquired by you and me. while we may continue to look at the strategic actors, the big event, i think this-- rudy was there. i was in london four, five days before that happened-- i think it's changing the breadth and scope of the terrorist activity that all free people are going to have to look at. at the end of the day, i think rudie and i probably agree. he saw it in new york. we saw it in boston. we saw it in sandy hook from the six-year-old to the principal. americans don't live in fear. >> schieffer: when osama bin laden was killed, we heard a lot about osama bin laden is dead. and i think a lot of people maybe got the idea that threat of terrorism is over. do you think it's over-- obviously, we don't know exactly what caused all of this situation in boston, but what's your take on that, mayor? >> well, of course it's not over. in fact, i think many people,

including me and tom, warned at the type that we better not think it's over because it's not over for them. the reality is whether we want to call this a war on terror, they call it a war on us. several of them center described it as a war in court, when they're being arraigned. and these people, these two young men joined a war. if you look at their web site. they're talking about jihad. they're talk pentagon war. ing about war. they are at war against us. we have to recognize that. i think it would be very helpful to reclassify the major hasan case as a terrorist attack. it's strange and i think harmful in the effort of breaking through this political correctness so we can analyze this effectively, not to describe major hasan's attack, yelling, a la aqaba," after consulting with allawi, talking about jihad. the people killed there were killed as parent of this war, and that should be described as

a terrorist attack. and studied from that point of view. maybe that would have helped a little bit in getting us further ahead if we had classified that correctly. >> schieffer: all right. well, thank you speech to both of you for bringing this perspective. and we'll be right back with a happy story. ♪ touching you sweet caroline ♪ ,,,,,,,,,,,,

go a long way to find good news over this past week. but we did. we went all the way to china. earlier today, at the great hall of the people in beijing, american investor steve schwarzman, founder of the blackstone group, announced a $300 million scholarship program to be located on the campus of a university in beijing. he is donating $100 million of his own money to the program, and is well on his way to raising the rest of the money. this has widespread bipartisan

support here and strong support from china's leaders, and he joins us this morning from beijing. mr. schwartz man, i understand this is going to be base on the well-known model of the rhodes scholarship program. 45% of the students come if this country, 20% from china, 35% from the rest of the world. how did you come up with this idea? and why did you decide to do it? >> thanks, bob. the idea actually was started by the people at a chinese university for their 100th anniversary in 2011. and they asked me if i would be interested in thinking about an international program. and i thought about the rhodes, and how effective that's been, developing so many leaders over the years, including bill clinton, as a model. and what we tried to do is adapt that as best we could tow bring

students instead of to oxford in england to bring them to chen wa university in chineap. the reason for that, the center of the world's economy is moving to asia, much more than it used to be. in 1902, when it was more u.s. and europe, when the rhodes was established. and i think that wringing bringg students to china is an essential part of their education. china is not longer an elective course. it's core curriculum. >> schieffer: as i understand it, this will impact 200 students a year. they get all expenses paid. they come to china. you're building a facility there modeled on the one where the rhodes scholars lived. and what is it, nearly, what, 45% of the them will be americans. the others will be chinese. and you have broad bipartisan

support for this. i think i should underline that again. you have former secretaries of state, both exprns democrats, finance people, people in business. how long do you think it's going to take to you raise the rest of the money? how much have you got so far? >> we've been at it for six months. i think another six months ought to do it. it was a remarkable experience today at the great hall where new president wrote a lengther letter endorse the program, as long as the exchanges between the u.s. and china and president obama wrote a similar kind of letter, and john kerry did a long video having just gotten back from china endorsing the schwarzman scholars program, as well as the exchange concept. and so did henry kissinger who of course came here first in

1971 and helped open china for the west. >> schieffer: well, it is-- it is a remarkable thing that i think almost everyone would agree on. and we want to thank you for being with us as we broke this story. it's something we're all going to be hearing a lot about in the days to come. and i must say, some good news is a week when there was not very much of that. thank you so much, mr. schwarzman. and we'll be right back. ,, [ birds chirping ]

[ inhales, exhales ] [ announcer ] cigarettes are not just dangerous when they're smoked. [ rat squeaking ] they're dangerous long after. cigarette butts are toxic. they release chemicals that poison our water... and harm wildlife. and millions... are polluting our environment. [ sniffing ] [ seagulls squawking ]

for us today. and we're going to leave you remembering the victims of the boston ma thon bombings. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org ,,,,,,,,,,